The Hole in the Sheet
Years ago the mother of one of my friends was so frustrated with the plight of the woman in our frum society that she joked that she was going to write a book about the plight of the frum woman and title the book "The Hole in the Sheet".
I had heard her gripes and the gripes of some female fellow jbloggers but having been male most, if not all, of my life, I could never really relate.
I would always try and give the arguments about how wonderful a woman's role is, and how it's different but equally important. While I still agree with daas torah and my stance on daas vs. binah, etc. a recent situation has made me feel a little of what these women are upset about, and are justified in their opinions.
A young woman that I know was in a bad marriage and after a fairly short time both sides agreed that the marriage would not last. The couple separated with every intention of getting divorced. I have my opinions, but that's all they are, opinions, so I won't get into the who's right and who's wrong arguments. All I will say is that the boy's side are wealthy multi-millionaires and are extorting money from the near penniless girl's side as a pre-condition before giving a get. They are insisting that the girl's father mortgage his house (pretty much his only worldly possession) to add to the boy's side's already overflowing coffers. The boy's family even went so far as to say, "we're in no rush, but we know that HER biological clock is ticking". DISGUSTING!!!!!!
Why would they do this? Simply put, because they can. Halachically, a woman is often treated as property, comparable to a horse or a piece of furniture.
Where are our gedolim to prevent such situations??? I can't imagine that this is what our chachomim had in mind. It just can't be. It just can't be :-(
I had heard her gripes and the gripes of some female fellow jbloggers but having been male most, if not all, of my life, I could never really relate.
I would always try and give the arguments about how wonderful a woman's role is, and how it's different but equally important. While I still agree with daas torah and my stance on daas vs. binah, etc. a recent situation has made me feel a little of what these women are upset about, and are justified in their opinions.
A young woman that I know was in a bad marriage and after a fairly short time both sides agreed that the marriage would not last. The couple separated with every intention of getting divorced. I have my opinions, but that's all they are, opinions, so I won't get into the who's right and who's wrong arguments. All I will say is that the boy's side are wealthy multi-millionaires and are extorting money from the near penniless girl's side as a pre-condition before giving a get. They are insisting that the girl's father mortgage his house (pretty much his only worldly possession) to add to the boy's side's already overflowing coffers. The boy's family even went so far as to say, "we're in no rush, but we know that HER biological clock is ticking". DISGUSTING!!!!!!
Why would they do this? Simply put, because they can. Halachically, a woman is often treated as property, comparable to a horse or a piece of furniture.
Where are our gedolim to prevent such situations??? I can't imagine that this is what our chachomim had in mind. It just can't be. It just can't be :-(
posted by A Frum Idealist | 9/13/2006 02:41:00 PM
20 Comments:
Good points you make I understand your frustrations.
OY, that's really sad. Sometimes people let greed get to them and forget that just because they could, doesn't mean they should.
wow, how people can be so mean and self centered! the world is a sad sad place. where is the justice??? or is everything about politics..........
That gets me so angry. I wish we could all picket the guy's house.
Terrible situation. It's time like this that one wonders about the whole concept of din.
i dont think this has anything to do with women in judaism, it has to do with disgusting poele posing as observant jews. here they take advantage of a woman, another one abuses a child, and another one sells treif chickens.. whats the difference? its not about the woman or the child or the customers.. its about the crooked poeple who abuse the system. g-d gave us free choice and that includes the ability to use the system to hurt and destroy.. unfortunately..
Mookie but Judaisms laws allow it to be so. This is not an isolated incident either.
It is a very sad situation. AFI, you will never understand what its like to be a girl but BH your a mentch.... you care when you see the injustice.
But FG, they should realize that eventhough they're allowed, that doesn't mean they should. They have free choice and should choose to be compassionate instead of greedy.
the laws dont allow it to be so, these poeple are breaking the laws. the law is to give the get, not to withold it or to use blackmail - same as the law is to have kids, and some use that to law to abuse kids.. but we wouldnt say the law allows kids to be abused
I see 2 overlapping issues..here..
One must be addressed..and thats corruption in every form..
I've seen cases like this unfortunatelyboth..for the girl and against the girl...so it's not really an issue of women being treated fairly..
Its simply Hashoched Ye'aver Einei Chachomim...
The second issue..is dangerous..
"Halachically, a woman is often treated as property, comparable to a horse or a piece of furniture. "
Are you disputing Halacha?
Are you saying ..it's outdated?
Look, I am not saying these people aren't breaking the law, being monsters, and twisting things in an ugly way to get what they want. I am saying that the laws *allow it* to be so... it is set up in a way that the woman is virtually powerless to stop her life from potentially being ruined.
'Nuff said.
FG..
" I am saying that the laws *allow it* to be so... it is set up in a way that the woman is virtually powerless to stop her life from potentially being ruined. "
Who set it up that way? If theyre Gods laws..aren't they the ultimate good..whether or not our mortal intellects grasp them as such?
Or are you saying that they're not really Gods laws?
David, I am amused that you are actually pressing for a debate... you the peacekeeping appeaser :-)
I am not saying they arent G-ds laws, far be it for me to be that presumptuous. I am, however, commenting on the injustice that seems to result from it.
I suppose its not like Hashem didnt know human nature and didnt know that this would result. I suppose that should be a kapara? That this is what was meant to be for all those agunah's? But you knwo what... that also means that their ex hubbies were meant to be evil and held accountable for their evil doings in the next world. Burn, baby, burn.
FG..
Exactly...Every system is capable of corruption and abuse if abusive people are running it.
My understanding is that this didn't pose a problem in the small shteitlach - where there was communal pressure and a central rabbi who was highly respected.
I think that given the way things are these days, we (rabbis, communities) have to come up with new ways to approach and prevent these situations. This obviously isn't an original thought - people have been talking about it for years. But like anything else where there has to be major change, we need more people to make a fuss about it.
I think people should be taught to be more compassionate so they don't abuse the system.
You are so right- it's absolutely shameful!
I've seen things like this happen. Sometimes it really does pay for the girl to just sue the bastard. According to holocha she can't but a womans perogative would make me do it.
What disgusting people, a Cherem should be put on the entire family(well the ones behind this!
While theories about equality between the sexes are very inspiring the fact remains that women are 'inferior' from an Halachic point of view.
We can't understand everything unfortunately but we can learn to live with it since it has very little practical relevance
.
there are a few rabbis who are not in the mainstream but they have freed hundreds of women
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