Torah Shebichsav
We live in an era where all good frum boys go to yeshiva and are taught to learn gemara. Not only are they taught to learn it, but unfortunately they are "taught" that gemara is the end all be all of the jewish religion. True, chazal teaches us to learn gemara because it includes everything else, but I don't think they meant it to the exclusion of all other learning as we are seeing these days. BH we are seeing a major increase in torah learning especially thanks to daf yomi. Don't get me wrong, I am not chas v'shalom knocking daf yomi, I think it's a wonderful thing, but take a few minutes and learn some torah shebichsav as well. It's getting to a point where our children will know that Yitzchak was Yaakov's father and Avrohom was Yitzchak's, not because it's written in chumash, but because it's brought down in the gemara.
There was a famous story (and I know the girl so I can vouch for the story's veracity) which took place when I was dating, about a girl who mentioned Eldad and Maidad on her date. The young man she was with responded with, "sorry, we don't learn navi in yeshiva".
His answer is wrong on so many levels. It's a shame that the boys don't learn navi, but the reason they don't is because the yeshivas are supposed to teach the tools to learn, and the boys stick to the tools and nothing else. How many boys these days know our rich history? I'm not even going into the fact that this young man, probably one of the best learners in his yeshiva, didn't even realize that Eldad and Maidad are in chumash, not navi. That my friends is a true crime.
For one hundred bonus points, who knows who Eldad and Maidad's parents were?
There was a famous story (and I know the girl so I can vouch for the story's veracity) which took place when I was dating, about a girl who mentioned Eldad and Maidad on her date. The young man she was with responded with, "sorry, we don't learn navi in yeshiva".
His answer is wrong on so many levels. It's a shame that the boys don't learn navi, but the reason they don't is because the yeshivas are supposed to teach the tools to learn, and the boys stick to the tools and nothing else. How many boys these days know our rich history? I'm not even going into the fact that this young man, probably one of the best learners in his yeshiva, didn't even realize that Eldad and Maidad are in chumash, not navi. That my friends is a true crime.
For one hundred bonus points, who knows who Eldad and Maidad's parents were?
posted by A Frum Idealist | 2/13/2006 09:17:00 AM
10 Comments:
Very true...
I've learnt with good chavrusos over the years...that had no clue where certain things were written in the Torah...and no concept whatsover of our history and timeline...
Such a shame.
I wonder what the significance of Eldad and Meidad was on a date in the first place, though. Proving how much you know? We already know girls are proficient in Chumash and Navi. Maybe we need to look at what people are discussing on shidduch dates and reform that... they should be looking for a good spouse, not discussing trivia!
eshet - I don't disagree, but I was mainly focusing on the torah studies side.
david - I actually used to have a navi chavrusa.
frumgirl - fair enough point. I don't disagree. perhaps it came up in conversation about the parsha. In any case, it still doesn't excuse guys from not knowing their stuff.
answer to question: daas zekeinim in beha'aloscha
very good nobody and anonymous
actually anonymous, you're close, but not quite right. It's the Targum Yonasan there.
Good post, I have not attended Yeshiva and therefore I lack behind in Gemarah, on the other hand where Navi and medrash and even genral Halchah is concerned, boy am I shocked what little, often wrong idea and knowledge the mainstream Yeshivah/Kollel student has. I’ve also ,never got an answer on this question: in the Pirkei avos it clearly says that one needs to master Tanach and Mishnah before learning Gemarah, yet today this Mishnah appears to be totally irrelevant?
hl - it's a perfect match in the true sense of the word, providing that the couple makes the most of the situation. If she helps teach him navi and chumash (although she shouldn't have to) and he teaches her what she needs to know in gemara, you're right, all works out very well. The problem is, both sides seem to be content in their own knowledge and lack thereof.
dm - some questions I prefer not addressing on my blog. My e-mail address is listed on my profile page, feel free to e-mail me and I will definitely respond.
prag - let's not forget that pirkei avos was written before the gemara and definitely before the gemara was transcribed. As I mentioned in the original post, although I disagree with it, I think the logic is that much of torah and navi is mentioned/brought down/discussed in the gemara. Then again, if there's no need for them why do we have navi?
How many yeshiva bochurim know the story of pilegesh b'givah, or any of the details relating to shimshon, anything having to do with david that it not mentioned in the gemara? How many can name more than half or the trai asar?
I would like to take this post one step further. Not only do yeshiva guys, and adults as well, go "run run run" to learn gemara, they think they are soooo frum. UNFORTUNALTY they dont apply what they learn to there day to day interaction with people. They are rude, obnoxious and they think they know it all. Of course there are some that are not like that, but from my experience more think they are sooooooo great b/c they know how to learn a blot. Where are the basics? The focus is all wrong.
For anybody that is interested in the answer. The Targum Yonasan in Behaaloscha cites that Eldad and Maidad were the children of Elitzafan ben Parnach and Yocheved. They were born during that period when Amram separated from Yocheved.
That would make Moshe and Eldad/Maidad half brothers.
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